Lyn: Hello, everyone, and welcome to… stars and stones. Can it be? The final installment of the Oathbringer reread‽ It doesn’t feel as if it’s been almost two and a half years, does it? But we started back in January of 2018.
Alice: … no way. Just… are you kidding me? ::checks calendar:: Wow. You’re right, of course.
L: Hard to believe, isn’t it?
A: SO hard. At the same time, this has been a steady milepost in my weeks for a long time, and it will feel really strange not to have that Wednesday deadline and Thursday discussion!
L: Especially considering how upended a lot of our lives have been lately. I suspect that joining along on the adventure has been a fun part of a lot of our readers’ routines, and I’m sorry to see it end for that reason as well.
A: For sure. I haven’t been as involved as usual in the discussion for the last months, but I’m going to miss the interaction—both with you in the writing, and then in reading the comments. Still, I’m really glad we were able to keep this going and keep our global group in touch.
L: Reminder that the Storm Cellar FB group is still out there, so if you need a way to connect and chat with other Stormlight fans and aren’t already a member, that’s an option.
A: YES! We would welcome you there!
L: In the coming months leading up to the release of Rhythm of War, you won’t be bereft of Stormlight content, thankfully! Alice and the rest of us “usual suspects” will be here now and again to bring you some fun articles to fill the gap. Want to give us a preview of some of the ideas you’ve had, Alice?
A: We’ve been tossing some ideas around, for sure! I’m pretty sure we’ll have another “The Story So Far” summary from Ross and Paige, to remind everyone of various important facts we’ll need in our back pockets. And of course, in the days just before release, we’ll have non-spoiler reviews, a beta-read article, and a “see if you can find the reference” game. Beyond that, or rather before that, some of the ideas we’ve looked at include a series on the physical world itself (flora, fauna, magic system), the Cognitive realm, foods, Cosmere tie-ins, the Unmade, the Heralds, the Knights Radiant orders, the Fused, what we know of the history… I’m pretty sure we don’t have time for ALL of that, but those are some of the things we’ve discussed. I’m not sure yet what the timeline will be on all this, so… we’ll see!
L: I have to admit… I don’t particularly want to end this. It’s so nice getting even this little bit of social interaction… but I suppose Alice and I can’t blather on at one another all day. That’s not what you’re here to read.
A: US? Blather at one another? All day??? Surely you jest.
L: I know right, that NEVER happens.
A: And I’m going to miss it.
L: Me too. But… Let’s begin, shall we?
In this week’s reread we discuss the magic system from Warbreaker in the Cosmere Connections section, along with references to a character or two, so if you haven’t read it, best to give that section a pass. We also make passing mention of characters and magic from White Sand and Mistborn.
Chapter Recap
WHO: Wit (Hoid)
WHERE: Kholinar
WHEN: 1174.2.10.5 (The same day as Adolin and Shallan’s wedding, probably four days after Moash was “promoted”)
Wit, disguised as a beggar, attempts to get punched by insulting a man, but finally resorts to cutting in front of him in a food line. Having satisfactorily lost a tooth, he proceeds to take care of a couple of the innocent victims of recent events. He then moves to the eastern wing of the palace, which is being diligently demolished; pretending panic and confusion, he reaches a particular segment of wall and starts whispering. Just before the guards throw him out, a frightened Cryptic climbs onto his hand and leaves with him.
Beginnings
Title: Great Art
“All great art is hated,” Wit said.
…
“That a thing is hated is not proof that it’s great art, but the lack of hatred is certainly proof that it is not.”
A: In keeping with the previous epilogues, this one opens with Wit musing on art, asking questions and finally reaching an answer. The first book, as he waited for Taln to arrive, had him talking to a couple of confused guardsmen about what talent people consider “of most worth”—and concluded that the answer was “timeliness.” The second book, as he waited for Jasnah’s return, showed him expounding to cremlings and songlings (both of which were probably hordelings of a Dysian Aimian) about the true soul of art, and his conclusion was “expectation.” This third book, as he prepares to seek out a small spren, he talks with the poorest and most destitute of the humans remaining in Kholinar, asking how many people need to love a piece of art to balance the number of people who will hate it; his answer (which we’ll discuss more below) is “one.”
Heralds:
Joker: Wild card
Shalash: Herald of Beauty, the Artist, patron of Lightweavers, Creative and Honest
A: There really couldn’t be any other choices, could there? The Joker is often associated with Wit’s presence; although he is occasionally there to represent an unexpected interference (wild card), in this case… well, it’s Wit. Shalash, as patron of the Lightweavers, is naturally depicted when a Cryptic is bonded.
Icon: Double Eye of the Almighty
A: I assume this is here because Hoid doesn’t (yet) have his own character icon, and uses the generic one. This is consistent with the previous two books.
Thematic Thoughts
Art is about emotion, examination, and going places people have never gone before to discover and investigate new things.
A: I get a kick out of the way Brandon almost breaks the fourth wall in these epilogue musings on art. They always make me wonder just what recent experience he had in mind when writing them.
L: Yes, they’re quite meta, aren’t they?
The only way to create something that nobody hates is to ensure that it can’t be loved either.
A: I suspect there’s a lot of truth here. I also suspect this applies particularly to the characters in a well-written work of fiction…
L: Oh, for sure. And even within a work, you will find people that love one aspect and hate another—much like how certain POV characters are despised by certain people and loved by others, and those same characters can be reversed for other people.
“The question becomes,” he whispered to her, “how many people need to love a piece of art to make it worthwhile? If you’re inevitably going to inspire hate, then how much enjoyment is needed to balance out the risk?”
A: The answer comes a few pages later, as usual:
He carried the girl back to the square, then quietly pushed the empty cradle away from Kheni and knelt before her. “I think, in answer to my question… I think it only takes one.”
A: I’ve had occasion to be watching Brandon when someone personally identifies with, and thanks him for, the way he wrote a particular character—more specifically, a character that seems to engender the whole range of emotional reactions from the fans. His delight in knowing that, no matter how many others might dislike the character, this person was deeply touched by the depiction… I think he knows exactly what he’s talking about with this question and its answer.
L: Absolutely. The greatest gift any writer can get is someone relating to a character.
A: For that matter, go look at the comments on the Ideal Heroes: Mental Illness article Paige and Ross wrote a while back, and compare those to the general reactions to these same characters in any given fan group. In general, there is a pretty high percentage of fans who get really tired of, for example, Shallan’s multiple personalities, or Kaladin’s depression. But on the other hand, there are those who have been deeply encouraged to just keep going by reading about a character so intimately relatable on a personal level. How many people need to love a character to balance out the risk? Perhaps it only takes one.
L: Positively affecting one single person is all some people need.
Stories & Songs
He passed into the shadow of the palace, and the sentry hovering in the air nearby, wind rippling her long clothing. Vatwha was her name. Thousands of years ago, he’d shared a dance with her.
A: I found this bit absolutely fascinating. Back in the long, long ago—somewhere in the neighborhood of seven or eight thousand years ago—Hoid was on Roshar. Whether he came at the same time, or even with the humans migrating from Ashyn, we don’t know. He could have come a bit before, or a bit after, but one way or another he’d been around during the time before the relationship between the singers and the humans turned sour. I wonder why he needed to be there, that time.
L: Do you think he’s time travelling too, or just immortal?
A: IIRC, it’s a bit of both. He was born tens of thousands of years ago, but he hasn’t actually lived all the time that’s passed; he skipped over a bunch of it. But he’s also got some pretty funky immortality-fu going on.
Buy the Book
Rhythm of War
L: I wonder if that time-travelling only goes in one direction, then. Like he can only go forward, never back?
A: I… think that’s the rule. I’ll have to go check! … And on checking, I see several forms of the same answer: So far, at least, he’s not allowing anyone to go back into the past. And the latest one (from October 2018) states that “time travel into the past is not going to be a factor in the Cosmere.” Which for me is a big relief; it would just get so awkward to have Hoid going back to fix things—especially if Rayse could go back and re-fix them too. Ugh.
Like all the others, she’d later been trained to watch for him.
But not well enough. As he passed underneath, she gave him the barest of glances. He decided not to take that as an insult, as it was what he wanted.
A: Was this a matter of personal enmity between Rayse and Hoid, or did he give the singers in general some reason to want his hide? With Hoid, it could certainly be the latter, and quite easily—but we know for a fact that the former is a never-ending issue. I guess it could even be both, couldn’t it?
L: I mean… Hoid’s got some level of enmity with most people he encounters, so… ::cough Kelsier cough::
He passed the sentry post, and wondered if anyone else thought it irregular that the Fused spent so much time here near this fallen section of the palace. Did anyone wonder why they worked so hard, clearing blocks, breaking down walls?
A: As a matter of fact… yes. Near the beginning of Chapter 121, Moash asked exactly that question, and Leshwi told him there was a reason, but he didn’t need to know it yet. Once we get to the end of the chapter, we find out… that they’re looking for a certain frightened and possibly damaged little Cryptic.
L: Poor little baby.
Relationships & Romances
On the other hand, if Rayse learned that Wit was in the city, he’d order his forces to level it—and would consider that a cheap price for even the slimmest chance of ending him.
A: So there’s that, as a possible answer to the previous question about why the Fused had been trained to watch for Hoid. It’s a bit over-the-top, to destroy an entire city on the off-chance of killing one person you hate. Then again, this is Rayse/Odium we’re talking about so… over-the-top is probably the order of the day. It’s not like he actually cares how many lives are lost in his own bid to escape the Rosharan system, so what are a few hundred thousand a little sooner, if it means a possibility of killing Hoid?
L: I also think that Rayse knows just how dangerous Hoid is. I suspect if anyone has the information and drive to take him down, it’s Hoid, so… makes sense that to take out such a clear and present threat, he’d be willing to sacrifice a few thousand people.
A: Interestingly enough, as I just now remembered, Hoid has said that if he has to watch Roshar burn to achieve his own ends, he’ll do it. And yet, he won’t risk the people of Kholinar at this moment.
L: I think there’s a difference between wanting a thing and needing a thing, you know? As of now, the destruction of Roshar isn’t necessary, so he’s doing what he can to preserve the life there. But should that change… I don’t doubt that he would do it. Does this make him the same as Taravangian?
A: Oh, I hate to even think such a thing! I like Hoid right now! But in a way it does, and on the whole I’d have to say Hoid is probably even more pragmatic about the survival of humanity than Taravangian is, though possibly less self-focused about it. Taravangian is willing to sacrifice the rest of Roshar to save his own family & city, which… well, it seems selfish, but at the same time, if you can only save a few, of course you save those you love. Hoid doesn’t have his own family to worry about (so far as we know), but I really don’t know what his priority for “saving some” might be. His motivations are a complete mystery. Is he trying to protect the rest of the Cosmere from destruction, and he’ll do whatever it takes to keep Rayse bound here on Roshar? Or is it just that Rayse would interfere with his own plans? I don’t know.
Bruised & Broken
A: I know this unit is mostly for the brokenness of the Knights Radiant, but there are others who fit this category. In this case, just two of the many people Wit has gotten to know in the city.
He eventually squatted next to Kheni, who still rocked her empty cradle, staring with haunted eyes across the square.
A: Kheni and her husband Cob seem to be among the many victims of the invasion, having lost their little child to anything from starvation, to incidental damage from the thunderclast and other fighting, to deliberate killing by an enemy. They’re certainly not alone in that loss, but… somehow, that doesn’t really help.
L: No one should have to suffer the loss of a child. :(
… a dirty little face poked out from some rubble.
… He held out his hand to her, but she ducked back in.
“I can’t leave Mama,” she whispered.
… [shows doll to child] “I need to leave the city,” he said. “And I can’t take her with me. Someone needs to care for her.” …
The girl, maybe four years old, finally emerged from the shadows and ran to get the doll. … The girl hugged the patchwork creation, and he picked her up, turning away from the broken building—and the bones of a leg sticking from the rubble just inside.
A: Here’s another victim—a mother killed by falling rubble when the thunderclast was smashing things, and a terrified little girl who can’t understand that her Mama is dead. The poor child would probably starve to death there in the dark, scared to stay but more scared to leave, if not for the compassion of this enigmatic character who, despite his own longevity and larger goals, is still moved to help the poorest of the poor as long as he can.
L: It’s actually really endearing to see these snippets of compassion from Hoid. So often he seems so far removed from humanity, so alien… but then we see these beautiful moments of empathy and love and care. It’s nice to know that even with everything he’s seen and experienced, he still cares.
A: This is the reason I keep coming back around to liking him. He’s done some things that made me absolutely furious… and then he does something like caring for these hurting souls in the midst of the end of their world, and I love him again.
He carried the girl back to the square, then quietly pushed the empty cradle away from Kheni and knelt before her. …
She blinked, then focused on the child in his arms.
“I have to leave the city,” Wit said. “And someone needs to take care of her.”
He waited until, at long last, Kheni held out her arms. Wit put the child into them, then rose.
A: This desire to take care of those who can’t take care of themselves… it’s not just Hoid, and it’s not just the Windrunners or the Edgedancers. Here, it’s a little girl who is given a doll that needs someone to care for her. It’s a grieving mother who discovers in herself the desire to watch over an orphaned little girl. All around us, it’s the people who are donating to their local food bank, making masks, picking up groceries for their elderly neighbor, or going to work despite the risks because others need their help.
L: You know, we often make parallels between the book and the real world in the reread, but this one is particularly poignant right now. The entire world is banding together against a threat—this is probably the closest we will ever get to the plot of a fantasy novel. There is a great evil that threatens to destroy us, and by and large, we’re all being heroes, in our own ways. As Alice said, we’re staying home despite the loneliness, or helping others, or going into work because others are in need of what we can do, or putting our own lives on the line to go work in hospitals. It’s… it’s really beautiful, and terrifying, and it’s reminding me more and more every day that living in extraordinary times like these isn’t fun or an adventure. It’s scary and trying, but just like the heroes in the stories we love, we will come out on the other side of this, and the heroism that’s been displayed from each and every one of us will serve to remind us that people are good and caring, and that the darkness will never prevail so long as we stand against it.
A: And because I don’t have another good place to put it, I’m going to add the reaction of Kheni’s husband, and Hoid’s response, right here:
Kheni’s husband took him by the arm, smiling. “Can you not stay a little longer?”
“I should think you are the first to ever ask me that, Cob,” Wit said. “And in truth, the sentiment frightens me.”
A: Yeah, it just made me chuckle. Cob probably isn’t the first person to wish he could stay longer; I’m pretty sure Shallan has thought it a couple of times, and surely over the last ten thousand years or so, someone else has appreciated him. But I have to admit—he’s very focused on his own goals, and he usually doesn’t bother himself about incidental damage to individuals on the way by. It’s not generally an endearing trait.
L: It’s got to be hard to form connections with mortals, when their lives are so fleeting compared to your own.
Places & Peoples
Weeks after the fall of Kholinar, the place still smelled like smoke. Though the city’s new masters had moved tens of thousands of humans out to work farms, complete resettlement would take months, if not years.
A: Probably due to recent reading choices (The Three-Body Problem was… amazing in its unique way), this reminded me inexorably of the Chinese “Socialist Education Movement” where the intellectuals were sent to the countryside to learn from the peasants… at least nominally; mostly it seems to have been an effort to silence those who didn’t, or even might not, agree with the Party line. I doubt that’s what Brandon had in mind, though; this tastes more like a combination of the usual “conquerors enslave the conquered,” and “have a taste of your own medicine.” And… it’s difficult to know quite what to say. Sending a bunch of city-dwellers to become farmers is so inefficient. They don’t have the faintest idea what to do, so production is going to go way down, meaning that there won’t be enough food for either race. If they’re supremely lucky, enough of the refugees who came into the city will go back out of the city and return some experienced farmers to the land.
L: Unless they’ve got exceptionally talented overseers who are taking the time to train them swiftly and efficiently, which… let’s face it… the Fused almost certainly do not.
A: As for the taste-of-medicine approach… I’m not a fan. Obviously the enslavement of the parshmen, and the way some/most people treated them, was a huge dark blot on humanity. On the other hand, the action that took away their self-determination was the action of a few in an effort to stop an unceasing war, and had unintended consequences. However, once it was done the entire people would likely have died out had they been left to themselves without the ability to take forms. We obviously don’t know enough yet to say for sure, but I strongly suspect that initially, taking in the parshmen and giving them simple tasks was an act of pure generosity, which later devolved into racial slavery like we can’t even imagine.
Tight Butts and Coconuts
“I’d tell you to put a sack over your head, but think of the poor sack! Theologians use you as proof that God exists, because such hideousness can only be intentional.”
The man didn’t respond. Wit poked him again, and he muttered something in Thaylen.
“You … don’t speak Alethi, do you?” Wit asked. “Of course you don’t.” Figured.
Well, repeating all that in Thaylen would be monotonous. So Wit cut in front of the man in line.
A: LOL. That whole speech was a lot of work just to get someone to punch him in the face! The second approach was both more effective, and much more efficient. Ah, well. Much like me, Wit has only a casual and infrequent friendship with brevity.
One of his teeth popped out. “Success!” he said in Thaylen, speaking with a faint lisp. “Thank you, dear man. I’m glad you appreciate my performance art, accomplished by cutting in front of you.”
A: Yeah, brevity? Nah.
Weighty Words
“Look,” he whispered to the wall, “you don’t have many choices right now.”
Above, the Fused turned to look at him.
“I know you’d rather have someone else,” Wit said, “but it isn’t the time to be picky. I’m certain now that the reason I’m in the city is to find you.”
A: So many questions raised here on a first read. Why is he whispering to the wall? Will the Fused recognize him now? And why did his spidey-sense tell him he needed to be here? What is so important about this moment, in the grand cosmic scheme of things?
L: Also… why is he here without knowing the reason why? Some sort of supernatural intuition, or was he given a tip by someone…?
A: I don’t think we’ve got much info on this just yet. We know he has some sense about where he needs to be, apparently because he has some access to Fortune (however that works!). But he often doesn’t know why he needs to be there, so he has to wait and see what shakes out.
“It’s either go with me now,” Wit said to the wall, “or wait it out and get captured. I honestly don’t even know if you’ve the mind to listen. But if you do, know this: I will give you truths. And I know some juicy ones.”
A: I’ll admit to a bit of confusion here, and I think it’s just that we have virtually no experience to look back on for enlightenment. If a bonded (or semi-bonded) Radiant is killed, is their spren stuck in the Physical realm? If that’s the case, what happened to Tien’s poor little bondmate? And how do the Fused capture sapient spren?
In any case, though, I loved Wit’s bargaining chip. I’ll bet he has some really juicy truths to share with a Cryptic!
L: Hoo boy, does he ever. He’s probably like a ten-course all-you-can-eat buffet.
A: LOL. That would surely describe him well! It also occurs to me that this might be the only Order he could possibly join; he can give truths, for sure (even if he’s not in the habit of telling the whole truth!), but I’m not sure how many of the other orders have Ideals he could honestly speak. Huh.
Something slipped from one of the cracks in the wall. A moving Pattern that dimpled the stone. It crossed to his hand, which he tucked into his rags as the guards seized him under the arms and hauled him out into the gardens, then tossed him among the beggars there.
Once they were gone, Wit rolled over and looked at the Pattern that now covered his palm. It seemed to be trembling.
“Life before death, little one,” Wit whispered.
A: Poor little mathematical design… Is it terrified of the close call, or of Wit? I’m going with the first, but hey, it could go either way. I’m also assuming that he goes on to complete the first Ideal, but this is just such a beautiful ending.
L: It really is a beautiful ending. And for what it’s worth, I think it’s the former, too.
Cosmere Connections
A: Warning: Warbreaker spoilers ahead!
He scooped up some rags—the remnants of a spren costume. … He took a cord from his pocket and twisted it around the rags.
A: Is this looking at all familiar? If not, go reread the prologue to Warbreaker.
Nearby, several buildings had fallen to the thunderclast’s attacks. He felt life from one, and when he drew close, a dirty little face poked out from some rubble.
A: This indicates that Wit is using a Nalthian magical ability called “life sense,” allowing him to tell without seeing that there’s a living person inside the fallen building. Those native to Nalthis have a small amount of this sense naturally, and it’s enhanced by BioChroma. Since Wit is definitely not native to Nalthis, he’s probably got at least the first Heightening (about 50 Breaths) in order to sense the child from a slight distance. (It’s probably quite a bit higher than that, but we don’t know for sure.)
L: Go on. (Seriously this is all Alice’s area of expertise, I’m not gonna have much to add in here…)
He took the rags and cord he’d worked with earlier, forming them into the shape of a little doll. … He raised the doll to his lips, then whispered a choice set of words.
When he set it down, it started to walk on its own. A soft gasp sounded inside the shadows. The little doll toddled toward the street. …
Wit stood and dusted off his coat, which was now grey.
A: I’m drawing a blank on this: Have we ever seen Wit definitively Awaken something before? Aside from the walking doll, he drained the color from “his ragged brown coat,” leaving it grey. That’s most definitely Nalthian Awakening, and probably used at least 25 Breaths to do. It doesn’t really tell us much about how many Breaths he still has, though. It takes the Sixth Heightening, about 3500 Breaths, to gain the “instinctive Awakening” that would let him do this kind of thing without training and practice, but… this is Hoid. He could well have spent as many years on Nalthis as it takes to develop an incredible amount of skill.
L: I don’t recall ever having seen him Awaken anything, either. But we all know how great my memory is, so…
He hesitated, then leaned down and touched the doll in the child’s hands. “Forget what I told you before,” he whispered. “Instead, take care of her.”
A: I’m honestly baffled by this one. Did he recover the Breath, or will the doll remain slightly animated forever? And if this was the doll’s new directive, that last is one heck of a complex Command.
I’m also going to include just a few comments on the Ars Arcanum, and I’m putting them here because they were written by one of the greatest Cosmere scholars in the Cosmere, the Duchess Khrissalla of Elis, on the Darkside of Taldain.
One, the “Ten Essences” table hasn’t changed since the first book, but this is the first time we’ve really seen the gemstones directly associated with the Knight Radiant orders for each Herald. We did see them linked to Soulcasting before, of course.
Two, this is the first time we’ve seen the list of Surges with their formal names and (sort of) what they do. It’s worth noting that while Khriss mentions the Surges as a “complement” to the Essences, she doesn’t speak to the fact that each order uses two of the Surges, but only one Essence. Later, when talking about Windrunning and Lashings, she does state that she believes the Windrunners use two types of Surgebinding.
Three, she points out something that various fans have noticed along the way: The chemical structure of the gemstones is far less important than the color thereof.
L: Which is pretty interesting when you really think about it.
A: Isn’t it, though? It makes me intensely curious!
Khriss is also fascinated by the relationship of fabrials to Surgebinding, and the fact that the Rosharans are able to imitate the abilities of the original magic-users by mechanical means. She also ties this to some of the discoveries being made on Scadrial, so… we can speculate about that for days on end!
There’s so much more that could be said about the Ars Arcanum, but… not by me, not today. Dig into it in the comments, though!
Abject Artwork
A: I loved watching Wit’s performance art in this scene, so I’m quoting some of it here:
He shoved his hands in the pockets of his ragged brown coat, then slouched his way through an alley. He passed groaning humans crying for deliverance, for mercy. He absorbed that, letting it reflect in him.
Not a mask he put on. Real sorrow. Real pain.
A: I’m never 100% convinced that Wit is not masking something, but he also seems to have some kind of ability to absorb (or discard) the real emotion and pain of those around him.
L: Yeah, that’s real interesting. An ability from a world we haven’t seen yet, perhaps?
A: Oh, I hadn’t thought about it as an actual magical function… That would be awesome.
Was it time for his big performance? Strangely, he found himself reluctant. Once he walked up those steps, he was committing to leave the city.
He’d found a much better audience among these poor people than he had among the lighteyes of Alethkar. He’d enjoyed his time here.
A: I’ve probably used “baffled” (or a synonym) more in this chapter than any other place in the book. There’s just so much about Wit that we don’t know, and we’ve been taught never to take him at face value. Had he enjoyed his time here because he was able to unequivocally help those who needed help? Or just because they were less suspicious than the nobles? Or… what? I’d like to think it was because he really enjoyed helping people, but I’m never quite confident that Wit is actually… good.
He adopted the act as he walked. The twitch of madness, the shuffle to his step.
A: Without quoting the entire section, it was fun to watch him fit himself to the part of a crippled, toothless, addled beggar, and then use that to do a series of “stupid” actions, getting himself into the exact place they were guarding but never looking like he was going there on purpose.
Quality Quotations
United,
new beginnings sing:“Defying truth,
love.
Truth defy!”Sing beginnings,
new unity.
–Ketek written by Jasnah Kholin, on the occasion of her ward Shallan Davar’s wedding celebration.
A: And with that, we bid farewell to the Oathbringer Reread. Not to Oathbringer, though; not at all. It’s time to start looking forward more specifically to the release of Rhythm of War! As we noted last week, the beta read is complete (more or less—we’re still adding notes as they occur to us) and Brandon is working his way through the next revision, fixing any holes and polishing the text as needed. We’ll be providing you with plenty of reading material before the book comes out, though; as we talked about earlier, we have Plans. Watch these spaces!
A: Thank you all for sticking with us through this lengthy endeavor. It’s been a delight to share it with you.
L: We’ll miss you.
Alice is rather startled to have come to the end of this reread. Other than that, things are almost exactly the same in her world as they have been for the last… oh, month or so. Still staying home, still distancing…
Lyndsey is closing in on 400 masks donated to hospitals and other health care workers, including an ER in NYC and one in Providence, RI. She hopes that you’re all staying safe out there and reminds you that if you’re doing something—anything—to help with this pandemic, even if that’s just staying at home to help flatten the curve, YOU are a hero and a Knight Radiant. Protect those who cannot protect themselves, my fellow Windrunners (and Radiants of other orders). If you’re an aspiring author, a cosplayer, or just like geeky content, follow Lyndsey’s work on Facebook or Instagram.
Excellent work on this reread! Thank you Alice, Lyndsey, and Paige for all of the hard work over 2+ years (wow, time files!). Alice, have you decided on what the next reread will be?
This was quite the poignant Hoid chapter. I may or may not have been cutting onions while reading this chapter…
Is there any plan for a Mistborn reread, Alice?
Don’t forget that when Hoid is talking to Kaladin in prison he muses about how nice it is to have perfect pitch; that’s the second Heightening, granted at 200 breaths.
Congrats and thanks for the enjoyable work. Hope all are well in these challenging times! -Rob
Am I the only one who absolutely loves the fact that Jasnah wrote a ketek for Shallan’s wedding? I mean… their relationship has come a long way from TWoK. I’m so looking forward to seeing how Shallan fits in with other Kholin women
I personally never liked Wit/Hoid. I have always read him as a plot device and I tend to dislike such characters. He obviously knows more then he is willing to share and this trope has always annoyed me. Still, despite my innate dislike for his character archetype, I actually enjoyed the epilogue. I thought him guiding a motherless little girl to a childless mother was sweet, touching, and it made me teary-eyed.
On the reverse, I didn’t like Hoid picking up Elhokar’s spren. In my mind, a plot device-like character has no business becoming a Radiant. I did not like this plot twist and I am absolutely not looking forward to more Hoid in RoW. Luckily for me, his parts are always short.
On the enslavement of the Parshendis: I find we do not have enough data to conclude much, but I will say I struggle to feel sympathy over the Parshendis indignation over something which happened so long ago, especially given they literally had no sentience the whole time. Their “enslavement” never looked like real “enslavement” to me given the fact they had no thoughts, no voice, nothing which would indicate they have any cognitive capacity. Hence, why would it anger me if, given the circumstances, they were treated as useful goods?
On the reverse, what the Parshendis are doing, right now, is far worst. They are purposefully enslaving a whole nation because on an event no one has any memory of and for mistreatment no one had the capacity to know it was… mistreatment in the first place. In other words, the humans didn’t know the Parshendis had cognitive capacities, they didn’t know they had enslaved them and, from their perspective, they treated them well. The Parshendis are very well aware the humans have cognitive capacities and they are purposefully enslaving them to serve their own need for vengeance over something no one even remembers happened.
It is going to be interesting to see how this thematic evolves in RoW, but I will be disappointed if it ends up being resumed to simplistically.
On relating to characters: In my personal experience in the fandom and with Brandon Sanderson, I have learned the hard way there is a “good way to relate to the characters” and there is a “bad way”. Suffice to say, the story has been built for specific readers to relate to specific characters in a specific manner: anyone who falls outside this mold can just forget about trying to explain why they relate to… other characters for other reasons.
Austin @1, Chitnis @2 – I strongly suspect the next reread will be Rhythm of War, actually, unless Brandon pops out Wandersail this summer, in which case we’ll almost certainly do that first. There’s just not time to take on another full-length project, and Dragonsteel recommends that we wait to do Elantris until the sequel is in the works.
We definitely want to do a Mistborn reread, but that’s going to be a big project even if we don’t dig as deep as we’ve been doing with Stormlight. I really don’t want to give it less than its due!
My current plan – and this is just me, I haven’t really discussed it with the good folks of Tor.com – is to stay focused on Stormlight until we polish off the first five. This means two more novellas (Rysn and Rock are each planned to get one, if that works out) and two more behemoths. (There’s also a possible third novella which would slot back in between TWoK and WoR, just for symmetry. It obviously wouldn’t be as important to the flow of the story as Edgedancer was, for example, but SA is all about the symmetry! I’m super curious as to who the subject might be…)
After that, Brandon will be taking a break to write other things (like Mistborn Era 3) and that’s when I think the Mistborn reread will happen. We’ll have the full text of the first two Eras to get started with, and a good five years to cover them before the back five of SA hit. Depending on how the timing goes, I’d say there’s a good chance of getting through the third Era as well, unless he starts making Mistborn books as long as Stormlight books. (Please, no…) And of course, it will make sense in-Cosmere to just keep going through all three Mistborn eras before we start a reread of Stormlight 6.
Well, that was a lot of me musing on the answer… but that’s about what I’ve got. I hope that answers some of the questions!
@7: Ah too bad about the Elantris re-read: it is one of my favorite one. A guess for the novella in between WoK and WoR… Renarin? It seems to me he had a few things happening during this time gap…
Alice, what about an Arcanum Unbounded reread? We can finally have proper discussions on stories like Sixth of the Dusk or Shadows for Silence, instead of just obliquely referencing them, and it should be short enough to bridge the gap until RoW comes out.
You missed the mention of Hoid’s advanced regeneration. He is apparently suppressing it in this chapter but even then expects the tooth to be regrown in about a week. I wonder where this regeneration is coming from. Ferochemy or something else?
I wanted to thank you three as well – always loved this reread.
@@@@@Wetlandernw – thanks. Yeah, I think it makes sense since starting Mistborn (6 books) to then stop and go back to Stormlight would be a bit jarring.
@@@@@ Alice – So, I’m actually very curious about your “dislike” of Hoid. I can’t recall any specific incidence where I would expect the reader to dislike him? All his character moments have really only made him more and more endearing to me. This particualar scene, along with Shallan’s, really made me like him.
@@@@@Gepeto
I mean you can say that, but no one actually begrudges you your like of Adolin and your dislike of Dalinar, as far as I can tell. You just tend to go very in-depth. That being said (lol), I actually disagree with both your statements on Hoid and the Parshendi. Hoid is a weird plot device. He’s tied to the overarching story, but his role in them are minor enough that other characters could fill those roles. That Cryptic will probably never come up again until Hoid becomes actively involved with the story, which probably won’t happen until the latter 5. Hoid was similarity involved in Mistborn and Warbreaker, but his subsequent acquisition of various powers didn’t change anything.
For the Parsh, I don’t really understand how you think “it was in the past” is a real moral argument against them. Using slaves – without cognitive function – is still using slaves. Worse, it was the entire race as far as they knew, and they “bred” them. Everyone surviving in the immediate aftermath knew exactly who the Parse were, since they literally were at war. The current situation is really that the Fused have conquered a few cities – not a nation. They’re even using their own “kind” as grunts. The parsh themselves have barely done anything. You can’t wash away past wrongs with “oh, well,” which is the same argument that you make about people excusing Dalinar’s actions. Dalinar and Gavilar’s armies have probably killed more Alethi have probably killed more people during their conquest than the Fused did in their two battles in present times. I would say that you’re allowed to be bitter when you’re still dealing with the repercussions thousands of years later.
I hope the WoK/WoR novella is about Renarin bonding Glys. That probably WOULD be pretty plot-important. Was Glys corrupted from the start? When did he get corrupted? How? Why?
Has anyone brought up the “new ending” of Elantris? The Hoid scene? Hoid’s companion spells his name “Hoed”, and is quickly corrected, as if it happens frequently. I assume it’s a play on Aons, but I’m no Sellic scholar, and couldn’t find an “Oed” Aon in the back of Elantris.
Doubt it will be renarin as he is supposed to be a primary flashback in the back 5 if I’m not mistaken
Thanks for all the work on this re-read. It gave me something to look forward to every Thursday!
@12: The “Hoed” were the Elantrians who had succumbed to the accumulated pain and became catatonic.
First and foremost: thank you, Alice and Lyn (and Paige).
WALL OF TEXT INCOMING!
Elantris potion! Didn’t we see this exact effect?
“Instead, take care of her.” Who? Kheni or the little girl?
Where Jezrien just died in the last chapter, right? And just next door to where Elhokar died. A new Surgebinder gets born, as Wit inverts that order, with “Life before death …” because Brandon is good at this ketek stuff.
The Shash essence = creative, honest. Also it’s the glyph on Kaladin’s head, and indicates Shalash and trouble?
The Old Magic is a cousin of Voidbinding!?
“These, thought to be the fundamental forces by which the world operates, are more accurately a representation of the ten basic abilities offered to the Heralds, and then the Knights Radiant, by their bonds.” Heralds have bonds, do they?
A Full Lashing might seem very similar to a Basic Lashing, but they worked on very different principles. While one had to do with gravitation, the other had to do with the force (or Surge, as the Radiants called them) of Adhesion—binding objects together as if they were one. I believe this Surge may have had something to do with atmospheric pressure.
Khriss is wrong, since Spiritual Adhesion would make no sense if that were the case. It’s a reasonable guess, though.
Alice: which later devolved into racial slavery like we can’t even imagine.
Alice, we’re imagining it right now. Brandon imagined it into existence.
A: LOL. That would surely describe him well! It also occurs to me that this might be the only Order he could possibly join; he can give truths, for sure (even if he’s not in the habit of telling the whole truth!), but I’m not sure how many of the other orders have Ideals he could honestly speak. Huh.
Well, as you commented before that, he’s acting like an Edgedancer as well as a Lightweaver in this chapter. (The sneaking around in disguise is clearly meant to evoke Shallan.) He spends all this chapter remembering those who have been forgotten, if you think about it. I suspect he’s the one who will hack the magic system and become a multiple-order Radiant. He has a history of trying to hack every Shardworld’s magic system (He tried to become an Elantrian in Elantris, became a Lightweaver from Nalthis, became a Mistborn in the Secret History, and stole the Moon Scepter just before The Emperor’s Soul.)
A: Poor little mathematical design… Is it terrified of the close call, or of Wit? I’m going with the first, but hey, it could go either way. I’m also assuming that he goes on to complete the first Ideal, but this is just such a beautiful ending.
Note that again, Elhokar tried to speak the First Ideal just next door, and got interrupted before finishing.
@Gepeto:
…especially given they literally had no sentience the whole time.”
This is not the case. One of them angrily denounces Kaladin, because he was always aware of what was happening, even as his child was sold away from him. What they lacked was volition.
@Simpol:
You missed the mention of Hoid’s advanced regeneration. He is apparently suppressing it in this chapter but even then expects the tooth to be regrown in about a week. I wonder where this regeneration is coming from. Ferochemy or something else?
Brandon has given more information on this outside the stories, which I’d rather not spoil.
thank you for the awesome reread!! it has been a great journey and am looking forward to continuing it down the road
Yes, thank you all for your hard work. I will miss this weekly visit.
@11: The problem is I do not understand what wrong humanity did next to the Parshmen. I mean, they couldn’t talk nor interact nor exhibit any cognitive abilities. They were unable to communicate… They essentially behaved like cattle would, hence why should it anger me humanity has used them to perform… work? That’s the part I do not understand, why it was so terrible to bred and exploit the Parshmen as one would with any useful animal. They never showed they were… cognitive…
It seems to me, up until the Everstorm stroke, no one had any idea the Parshmen actually were… people. So they weren’t treated like people.
I take issues with the Fused actions, in the same manner, I take issues with Gavilar and Dalinar’s war. Both are, IMHO, equally bad though Gavilar didn’t enslave the populations after he conquered princedoms. He just changed the leadership, the people could go on with their life with little change or so is my perception.
On characters: Some people have been bothered by it, which is fair except it included people I had hoped/expected wouldn’t, hence the comment.
@13: Lift had a novella despite being a back five-character, so I do not see why Renarin can’t have a novella too. Mind, I’d literally die for an Adolin themed book, be it a novella or even just a narrative, but he just doesn’t fit in this particular gap. I think Renarin definitely comes across as someone having a story to tell inside this specific gap though it could also be another unknown character in a distant location. That too is possible.
Or maybe an odd guess… How about Moash? This would fit with the beginning of his involvement with Graves. Or Taravangian?
@18: I understood he remembered he had a child after the Everstorn hit, but before, he was mindless. Still, even if I misremember and he was cognitive enough to realize it, he had no means to communicate which is odd. If he understood what was happening and if he had more mind than “cattle”, then why didn’t use means to communicate it? Words are not the sole manner to communicate which is why my understanding is the Parshmen did not have significant cognitive functions left for independent action.
This is why I have a hard time blaming humans. It seems more like a genuine mistake out of ignorance than a desire to enslave an entire nation. I guess we will have to wait and see how it evolves.
It could be a retelling of Taravangion’s visit to Cultivation and his subsequent brilliant day, including details on various Harrolds and members of the Diagram.
Not that I like Taravangion. I just think we could learn something useful.
@lyndsey, Alice, Paige, Aubree, & Ross – Thank you for a great Re-read!! Wish I’d been able to be more active in the discussion this last year as well. But thank you all for your weekly time and incites.
@carl, They sold his mate, once she was proven to be a “good breeder.” Leaving him with his child. Who he then lost to the Fused. I hope we get an update on her at some point. The “good breeder” comment is a horrible indication of many things. Similar words were used when talking about pre-Civil war slavery as well.
The whole Singer, Listener, Parshmen, and Fused dynamic is not an easy one to discuss. It bring to mind many parallels with slavery and Native Americans and conquered peoples. The humans were not in the right place to make them slaves. The new freedman were not in the right place to turn around and make slaves. I’m hoping to see more about this uneasy dynamic in RoW.
Hoid, tricky, tricky Hoid.
@11, the Hoid of MB: Secret Histories is not a nice guy. He comes in and does some very not nice things. I believe that is one reason Alice did not always like Hoid. But here, I can forgive him much.
@Braid_Tug
Agree with your RoW sentiment. As for Hoid, it’s not like Kelsier isn’t kind of jerk. I’ll have to reread Secret Histories. I’ve always considered him like a kind-hearted Loki. I only remember him getting the bead and semi-fighting Kelsier.
@Gepeto
We’re probably just not going to agree on this at all. In the intermediate aftermath of the war, at the very least, the Radiants knew. Non-Radiants should probably also have known since they would have knew what Voidbringers looked like. The parsh “suddenly” appearing everywhere should have been obvious. The current humans aren’t at fault, but that doesn’t mean that it’s “water under the bridge.” At least, on the moral side, from the reader.
Thank you so much for this reread! I’m relatively new to the Cosmere fandom, and it’s been great to read and discuss these every week.
this reminded me inexorably of the Chinese “Socialist Education Movement” where the intellectuals were sent to the countryside to learn from the peasants… at least nominally
Su Wei’s The Invisible Valley is a really interesting book that follows a teenager who was swept up in this program.
Alice, Paige, Aubree and Lyndsey. Thank you all for your efforts during the re-read of Oathbringer. I hope Tor will allow you to do a similar re-read for WoR sometime in 2021. (As the book is scheduled to come out in November, it would be nice to have through the holidays to read the book before the re-read starts.)
Alice and Lyndsey. Interesting question of whether Wit/Hoid can time-travel. I just hope he is not like Merlyn in Once and a Future King (living through times backward). I do not like those characters who live in that manner. I cannot explain why I do not like that type of character. For what it is worth, I did not like the Curious Case of Benjamin Button either. Even though Alice found a WoB stating there is no time travel in the Cosmere, I could see Brandon including a character with Merlin sickness (characters who live their lives backwards). He could then say Merlin sickness is different from time travel (which, in my opinion, it is).
Anybody have a guess as to why the Fused where looking for the Cryptic spren? I do not have any guesses and would like to hear other’s theories on this issue.
Alice and Lyndsey. A poignant discussion about the good deeds that the citizens of Kholinar (especially its most down-trodden) during an apocalypse and the good deeds we hear people doing for other in RL during a time of upheaval as we suffer through a global epidemic.
Alice and Lyndsey. Did you talk about the 4 color pictures of the Heralds in OB in depth during the re-reads. I honestly cannot remember. If not, what is your opinions of them: both the picture themselves and how the images might relate to the text of the story.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
I don’t really have anything to add, just wanted to say a massive thank you for doing this > 2 year re-read! It’s been something I’ve looked forward to every week.
Can’t wait for the Book 4 buildup and hype to start!
Thank you for the great work in the re-read, everyone. It has been a pleasure. :)
Breaking news on Nalthis: Bucket of seafood fell over! :D
Now that you point it out, I read Identity.
Fake it ’till you make it is a thing with emotions as well. In a good actor, it doesn’t matter if the emotion is fake. In a good story, it doesn’t matter that the protagonist is not real. The same neurons will fire, and the same biochemical reaction will trigger.
I think that Hoid is genuinely capable of empathy to strangers, which puts him out of the sociopathy/psychopathy department in my book. He often goes out of his way to help others. Okay, a point could be made that he doesn’t know why he’s there since he’s channeling Fortune and is just killing time, but he’s killing time by helping people. He wouldn’t have to do that. He changed at least two lives for the better (the orphan girl and the woman), and it would have been easier for him not to do that. He even expended a not insignificant amount of Breath to do that.
So we have that guy who, by some magic, ends up in a place with no clear plan what to do, and we see him… burning up his resources to help people. In my book, that qualifies him as good. Equally does the point that he’d see Roshar burn “with tears” and that he’s doing what he can to make sure that doesn’t happen (which is kind of the opposite of what T. is doing).
I can’t remember him doing anything genuinely bad (decking Kelsier doesn’t count, guy had it coming :D)
@6, Gepeto:
To my knowledge, Hoid is what initially spawned the entire Cosmere, a man in a story who knows more than others. That… kind of makes him the opposite of a plot device.
I… disagree on this. I think that’s the difference between holding chickens on a field and holding chickens in cages the size of a chicken.
That guy remembered pretty well, so it’s not as if they were making that up. Looking back at Rlain, he’s communicating well enough to bring his point across. If your breeding animal exhibits incredible and lasting distress when you take its mate away, then you are not treating your animal well if you do that, so I call chull dung on that argument.
@Braid_Tug:
Brandon does PoV well. That’s Kelsier’s perception of Hoid. In Oathbringer, we get Shallan’s perception. It’s worth noting that Kelsier is a psychopathic mass killer, where Shallan is an amnesic, um, patricide and matricide. My point is that neither of them will have the same perception as a more typical person. (Note that both Shallan and Kelsier are unreliable narrators. She’s delusional and he’s a manipulative psychopath.)
I hope I live another 15 or 20 years to see more of Hoid from Jasnah’s PoV, or Khriss’s.
24. AndrewHB
I’m hoping Tor does the “publish the first third on the site” thing they did for Oathbringer. I don’t think it hurt sales at all.
He’s subtle but not tricky. In any case, that’s not true of Hoid. We know when he became a Mistborn, and it was after Secret History (where he stole the lerasium bead). That’s well in the past of Oathbringer. He also was not an obvious Awakener or (Roshar-style) Lightweaver in Warbreaker (well before this story).
@manavortex:
Rlain was never a parshman slave, though. He was a Listener in dullform, which is not the same. Dullform listeners had volition, they just weren’t as smart or talented as, say, a workform or nimbleform.
@Gepeto, 19: To repurpose one of the memes of the internet, ‘I don’t know how to explain to you that slavery is bad’.
At the time the natives of Roshar were transformed into the Parsh, people knew what had happened, and that these new, pliable slaves were once their enemies – thinking, reasoning enemies. At that time, people had a choice about that they would do with the new population of Parshmen and they chose to enslave them. At that time, they also apparently knew that that they were the natives of Roshar and humanity were the interlopers, making the situation even more stark.
We recognise, morally, that slavery is wrong. We have laws about how we treat prisoners of war: notably, we do not enslave them.
Historical crimes are still crimes. All too often they are brushed under the rug, but the fact they happened can’t be ignored, which is why discussions occasionally ignite about reparations to the descendants of enslaved populations, removing statues, or renaming buildings which are associated with what we now recognise as a great moral wrong.
Furthermore, I cannot accept that modern humans on Roshar wouldn’t entertain the suggestion that Parshmen are sentient. Most notably, they can understand and follow spoken orders. They weren’t livestock, they were visibly thinking beings who lacked volition.
I think Brandon* has created a very nuanced ethical situation to explore here, not because there’s some debate over whether creating and enslaving the Parshmen was right or wrong (I don’t think there’s any construction you can put on it that makes it the right thing to do: almost every individual in a species was subject to supernatural, heritable lobotomy and enslaved!) but because it mirrors the convenient moral wrongs of our own society. The slavery we prefer not to think about because it makes us cheap clothes and cool phones. It puts us face to face with slavery the characters prefer not to think about because it makes their lives easier, and asks us some difficult questions.
*I’m not saying I speak for him here, this is my interpretation of the words he’s written.
Mods: This article does not seem to be tagged as part of the Oathbringer reread.
@29 – Fixed, thank you!
LazerWulf @9 – Oh, right! I forgot about Arcanum Unbounded! I need to stuff that into the plans, because it would be really easy to put some of the standalone stories into an open slot. The longer ones might take a couple of weeks, but the short ones could almost be one-shotted.
Keyblazing @11 – Braid_Tug @21 is correct – the thing in MB:SH with Kelsier was probably the biggest reason to actually dislike Hoid. You’re right, of course, that Kelsier himself is no angel, and in many ways he’s only sympathetic because we saw the story from his POV. There have been other things that make me question Hoid’s motives, though, and I’m always a little uneasy about his involvement with big things. Individuals, though… he can be pretty amazing.
Carl @16 – it was both sad and Significant, I thought, that everything happened so close to where Moash did his deeds. Obviously, the spren was still close to where Elhokar died, so that was necessary, but it was perhaps more sad because of that. Poor little Cryptic had made his/her choice, got him snatched away right at the point of bonding, and didn’t know what to do. So of course Hoid was able to find the lost little creature, right there in the same place. (Come to think of it, that’s pretty much what happened with Eshonai, Timbre, and Venli, too – with the difference that Wit was searching, and Venli wasn’t.) As for being thrown out into the garden right where Jezrien used to hang out… I don’t quite know what to think. I wonder, though, if Wit knew he was there all that time. I’ll bet he did, and I wonder if he knew when Jezrien died.
I’ll respond to more comments later today… at least where I can. Some comments are getting into areas I can’t talk about right now.
Thing about Mistborn Secret History, is I just Jumped the conclusion that Hoid and Kelsier butted heads because they are two of a kind. But in any case I honestly don’t know.
In any case something worth pointing out is that Brandon’s books are ones that challenge perspective. That put you into the heads of characters who may think differently than you. And while you don’t have to agree with them he DOES challenge you to try and at least understand where they are coming from.
How does the quote go “don’t judge a person until you’ve walked a mile in their shoes?”
An Arcanum Unbounded reread series would be awesometastic. Please and thank you.
I don’t know why Hoid didn’t just punch himself in the face. But I’m glad of it, because I love his speech, though I disagree with it a smidge:
I’m not much for judging most art forms, but it’s true of books. I love many books that a large or small number of people hate. And there are countless much-loved books I hate, or would hate if I read them, because I categorically dislike their genre or features. But I don’t think it’s that easy to create something nobody loves. Human tastes are varied enough that most anything hateable or even boring will probably appeal to someone. I mean, there are books (and TV shows, and suchlike) that I find terminally blandly boring and many other people find very engaging for better or worse. To quote a person I won’t name: “Just as your story will not be for everyone, it will be for someone.”
Thank you for the Oathbringer Reread, everyone.
Echoing others, thank you Alice, Lyndsey, and Paige for all the efforts you have put into this reread. It was my first Stormlight one but certainly won’t be the last. And thank you to all my fellow rereaders for allowing me to play in your sandbox.
Speculations:
1) Could Hoid have been on Roshar back then to help trap Rayse? Do we know when that actually happened?
2) Could they be emptying Kholinar in order to gain access to whatever was there before the city was built? Maybe we can finally find out what the Windblades are.
I do love this ending very much.
I don’t really have the wherwithal to get into the slavery/reparation debate, honestly. Especially as I think we still don’t have all the details of what (and why) happened and how much the humans knew at the time.
Alice, Lyndsey, Paige and Aubree, I’d like to add my thanks to those of earlier commenters. I have only made the occasional comment myself, but have ‘tuned in’ every week to enjoy the articles and discussions. I appreciate all your hard work. Also, thanks to everyone who’s added their thoughts and opinions each week. It’s all really given me so much more to think about than I had got from my own original read of the book. I’ll look forward to whatever you find time to do next.
@27, Carl: Didn’t they all trap themselves in Dullform to get rid of the gods? That’s what I remember at least, I might be wrong though.
@37, manavortex: actually the text says that Rlain took Dullform to hide among the slaves, and it’s made clear that he was still fully sapient and had volition in Dullform, unlike the parshmen. IIRC, the canon is that a Singer could tell the difference between them, but to humans (especially humans who didn’t know there were other forms) he looked enough like a slaveform to pass.
I too want to thank Alice, Lyndsey, Aubree, and Paige for their great articles and insights. I have enjoyed this reread and looked forward to having the Thursday article every week. I also liked reading all the posters’ various opinions and observations. I will miss it, but hope to join you all again for the RoW reread!
About Wit, the only non-Stormlight Sanderson book I have read is Warbreaker, and was disappointed in Hoid’s role there as a brief cameo (plus, I really really missed Roshar, with its weird weather, animals, and plants. Having a mundane world after that was a bit of a let down). I like the Stormlight Wit, where he is an actual character. It occurs to me that Hoid likely goes long periods of time where he has no one who cares about him. This is why I really love the relationship between him and Shallan. When she hugged him in WoR and he was completely nonplussed (me using the word the old fashioned correct way– get off my lawn, you young whippersnappers!), and didn’t quite know what to do with his arms, it seemed to demonstrate that it had been a long time since anyone had felt a personal connection to him. I love how much Shallan humanizes Wit. And while he may be this kind without her influence, I’d like to think that their relationship reminds him of what it feels like to have someone care, and how important that can be.
Thank you for the amazing reread, Alice and Lyndsey (and Paige and Aubree, too)!
I very much enjoyed it, even if I didn’t post much.
“When she hugged him in WoR and he was completely nonplussed (me using the word the old fashioned correct way– get off my lawn, you young whippersnappers!)”
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
::wipes away tears of joy::
Add another to the list of those that really appreciate the re-reads and the extra enjoyment of the books they bring.
Hoid seemed very like Wayne as he picked up traits and feeling from those around him.
I am wondering what the spren was to the fused. It must have been important since they were spending so much effort to find it; but there were fused in the cognitive realm, why couldn’t they just grab one there?
@nightheron, good point about Hoid’s not being used to human, er, connection. Also seen in the Epilogue, of course, when he actually says he’s not used to people wanting him around.
He’s not a major character in pre-Stormlight Cosmere books, as a conscious decision on Brandon’s part. He was deliberately avoiding major “crossover” elements so as not to scare off new readers by making them learn multiple books of lore before they could understand his latest novel. I guess he figures he’s past that necessity now.
@carl, thanks, then I outright misremembered. :)
In any case, if humans can’t be expected to tell a genuine parhsman from a parshendi in Dullform, then I would apply the same ethical measure to both and just… not enslave them and breed them like cattle? I know, I know. It’s absurd.
Just want to say thanks to Alice, Lyndsey, Aubree, and Paige!
I mainly lurk, but I read every week and look forward to the next Cosmere installment!
You know what.. I’ve always wanted to do one of these… turns out I waited too late but whatever I’m going back to the start. See ya’ll in the comments.
Just double checking but is the Elantris reread dead?
Ben @47 – Well, not exactly dead, but not happening just now. Team Dragonsteel wants that to wait until the sequel is in work, and Tor has other plans for the intervening months.
@48 may I ask what those plans are?
@BenW: I have no inside information, but with Rhythm of War due out in a few months, they may repeat the Oathbringer precedent and have a read-along as they publish the first few chapters online. I hope so, I enjoyed that.
@50Carl – I believe they have already confirmed that they are going to do a read-along.
Any chance we may get a reread of one of the stand alone novellas like Shadows For Silence In The Forest Of Hell or Sixth Of The Dusk?
@RogerPavelle , thanks, that’s good news.
I really don’t want to get too specific about plans, since nothing is scheduled yet. Brandon confirmed in his livestream that there will be a serialization of RoW here, similar to what they did with Oathbringer, but I don’t know the timing yet, nor how much of the book will be released this way. For now, the plans are still in work, as far as I know.
Ben, I definitely think a reread of one of the novellas would be fun to do, and I’d love to do it. I’m just not sure when.
I wholeheartedly disagree with this. The people we’ve seen him be particularly harsh with ARE people who deserve it, as he said to Dalinar in the first book. Yes, he hurt Kelsier some mentally, but that was after Kelsier threatened him and attacked first. Hoid was just trying to get passed him (edit: and okay, insult him a little) and Kelsier immediately assumed that made him a threat. Hoid specifically states that he had no desire to cause permanent damage to his soul.
Edit: Kelsier’s response to a few insults from Hoid and Hoid’s suggestion that they play an insult game is this:
Hoid was not the aggressor. He intentionally didn’t cause him any lasting damage.